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The spectacle of a prime time address on healthcare shown on national television as a stage for Obama. He could lie as often as he wanted and knows the media will never challenge him. He knows that even if he slips and says something outrageous they will actually cover for him.
South Carolina Representative stood up and spoke truth to power "You Lie!". I think everyone knows that illegal immigrants will be given ObamaCare without being forced to pay the "individual mandate". (That means being forced to buy health insurance).
While Obama has said that we can save money by not spending wildly to treat incurable problems or giving 99 year olds hip replacements, everyone knows the government will fully cover AIDS treatment. There's no cure for it, everyone who contracts it is doomed to die. Yet that will be covered. That is political.
Everyone knows the Public Option comes with a law to ban private insurance companies from writing new individual policies after around 2013. That is some kind of "competition" when the other guys can no longer compete under the law. It is nothing like car insurance, that is another lie, no one is forced to own a car. Car insurance varies wildly by state, not mandated by the feds.
The idea of the "co-ops" is a sham from the start. An organization that is run from the top-down and its board appointed by the President is not a co-op by any stretch of the imagination. It doesn't come anywhere near meeting the definition.
The biggest lie thrown out by the left is that we can cover tens of millions more people and save money. Save money? Are we somehow going to be spending less money on far more people. How is that even possible?
The answer is called "rationing". Some people will be denied healthcare, there will be waiting lists that cause some to die waiting and some will be helped to die, whether they like it or not. This is how it always works, always, when government healthcare systems need to save money.
Joe Wilson is correct. Barack Obama and his minions in Congress and the media are liars. Full-on liars in overdrive.
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Joe Wilson is a troglodyte who brought shame to his country. Even he admits this in his -admittedly- watered-down apology. There is a time and a place to air grievances and to speak truth to power, but when the President of the United States is speaking, you should probably STFU.
ReplyDeleteJust like when Bush was President, the left was oh so polite.
ReplyDeleteright
Did they shout him down in the middle of the House? Did they call him a liar to his face? C'mon man, only the Haters are on board with this despicable outburst. Even Republicans are at least making a show of being ashamed.
ReplyDeleteBesides which, an eye for an eye makes the whole world blind (Gandhi). Even supposing the left HAD been as deplorably rude as Wilson was tonite, that's no reason for the right to 'sink' to their level.
We can agree on that much, right? That politicians, regardless of party affiliation, should represent the best of us?
The best of the Democrat Party was a man who killed a woman by drowning and then spent the rest of his life joking about it. The best of the Democrat Party is a man who allowed a homosexual prostitution ring to operate from his home. The best of the Democrat Party is hiding taxable assets while writing tax laws for everyone else. The best of the Democrat Party is a man who literally hates everyone with white skin and reveres communist mass murderers and who finds massive support from the press. The best of the Democrat Party is a super-wealthy money trader who hides his billions in tax free bonds while encouraging high taxes for everyone else.
ReplyDeletePoliticians reflect the worst of the Democrat Party because the mass media gives them a pass. Somehow the press and left seem to demand "civility" from everyone else while holding themselves above that sort of thing.
Rude is calling average citizens "unamerican", "terrorists", "Hitlers heirs" etc simply for disagreeing with those in power.
Another high ideal held by the left in this country is shameless, utter hypocrisy that on the morning of January 20 "speak truth to power" became "stfu america"!.
I think you missed my point. We should be judging the individuals themselves, and not the party -that's where partisanship comes into it. I mean, the problem with a two party system is there are bound to be dicks in both groups. Correction: with Dem's we have pussies and with Rep's we have assholes.
ReplyDeleteIt's not that I think people shouldn't challenge the President, or hold him to account; I just think interrupting his speech to call him a liar -particularly when he wasn't lying- is flat-out rude and totally indefensible. And Republicans and Democrats are both decrying it as being incredibly inappropriate. I challenge you to find me one Republican who thinks that was good idea and a classy move.
As for the rest of your comments... ah, where to start? I don't know who you're talking about for the most part, although I assume the man you accuse of hating everyone with white skin is Obama himself, but who is this communist mass murderer you allege him to revere?
I feel like I'm arguing with Glenn Beck's mini-me. If Obama hates everyone with white skin, does this mean he hates half his family? Half of himself?
And who are you quoting with the 'unamerican' and 'Hitler's Heirs' stuff?
Never mind, it doesn't really matter; it's just confetti to distract from REAL ISSUES. What matters, is that the Health Care system in America is fucked. That's not even up for debate. That's an agreed upon fact. So who is benefitted by infantile outbursts from the floor of the House? How did that advance the cause of reform in anyway? How was that a contribution?
You seriously didn't know this about Van Jones?
ReplyDeleteIf we judged individuals then Ted Kennedy would have never been a Senator. Barney Frank would have never been re-elected to a second term. Charley Rangel would be fighting off the IRS and likely in prison. It goes on and on.
ReplyDeleteInteresting that if a Republican sends flirty text messages to an intern they get hounded out of office with daily news headlines. While Democrats can lie, cheat and steal bald-faced in front of the world without the media even thinking of really going after them.
The Republicans crooks get booted while the Democrat crooks get to live the high life and be beloved by the media.
I suppose you never cheered when George Bush was interrupted by Code Pink (funders of terrorist groups btw). I bet you smiled when the shoes got thrown.
"Un-American" was the term that Nancy Pelosi and Steny Hoyer gave those people who showed up at the Town Hall forums. You know where members of Congress were to hear opinions on "reform" of healthcare. Except those who disagreed get called names.
I forget the name of the CongressRat who called these average Americans "Hitlers Heirs". Unlike the SEIU, ACORN, OFA paid protesters, these citizens showed up on their own.
The health care system in the US is superior to any other on Earth. That is also not up for debate. Why do you think people ride buses from Canada to come down here for treatment?
Would you like to wait 22 months for an MRI? Would you like to see your pre-mature baby allowed to die because it missed the cut-off for an incubator by 2 days?
I noticed how it always seems to be the leftists who decide what the "real issue" is. They declare something to be a "crisis" and announce that they also have the remedy; more taxes and more government employees.
ReplyDeleteEverything must be a crisis. We must have the leftist media create the appearance of a crisis so we can scare them into supporting leftist ideas. Ideas they would laugh at otherwise.
Well, I suppose I might as well come out of the closet and say that I'm a Canadian. And actually, America does NOT have the best Health Care in the world. That honor belongs to France (Canada ranks 30th, btw; America 37th).
ReplyDeletehttp://www.photius.com/rankings/healthranks.html
Again, your entire response reeks of the partisanship that America needs to move beyond. Everybody should be held to the same scale regardless of party affiliation. I'm not going to defend the actions of certain politicians simply because I like their Party. That would be stupid.
So what would be awesome would be to see people held accountable for their actions, and for voters to stop voting in corrupt officials, red or blue. That would be progressive.
Crooks should be booted regardless of whose colors they fly.
I'm not sure about the Code Pink thing, but I will tell you that you're wrong about me smiling when Bush got the shoe: I didn't just smile, I laughed out loud. I chuckled to myself anytime I remembered it, and THEN I smiled.
I mean, seriously, the man LIED about Iraq. He ignored the intelligence leading up to 9/11. He was a dangerous idiot who squandered your country's goodwill with the world at large. An impeachment would have been nice, but the shoe was a decent consolation prize.
And as for the unamerican/townhall comment, did we see the same footage? Because all I saw was a whole lot of screaming, quite a few Obama/Hitler signs and a few people strapping handguns - as if guns had anything to do with Health Care reform. I suspect Pelosi used the word 'unamerican' because 'retarded' would have gotten her into trouble.
Anyways, we've gotten off topic - as happens alot when partisan rhetoric is allowed within the realm of civilized discourse.
The original issue was whether or not shouting "You Lie" in the middle of the President's speech to the House was appropriate; whether it was to be commended as 'Speaking Truth to Power', or denounced as rude, inappropriate grandstanding, completely out-of-line with anything resembling intelligent debate.
As you can well imagine, I'm still holding with the latter; and I've yet to see anything here which changes my mind.
In regards to "crisis" and "real issues"; that sounds familiar.
ReplyDeleteSort of like a post 9/11, using it to justify a war in Iraq and an erosion of personal freedoms.
I mean, seriously, the man LIED about Iraq. He ignored the intelligence leading up to 9/11
ReplyDeleteThe same intelligence that Bill Clinton said was real, that France said was real and other countries.
I suppose Obama didn't lie when he said unemployment would not rise above 8.5% which is now 9.7%.
The US does have the best health care and I do not need phony "rankings" to say so.
I am not partisan since I belong to no party.
Everyone should be held to the same standard? Would that include tax cheats like the Secretary of the Treasury and Chairman of the House Ways and Means Committee?
Or maybe the New Black Panthers standing in the doorway of a voting location threatening anyone they considered a non-Obama with billy clubs? Of course those charges were dropped, just like the corruption charges against the Democrat Governor of New Mexico.
Nothing partisan about those I guess?
We have a lawless administration.
What you saw of the Town Hall meetings was what the leftist media wanted you to see. They know exactly how to twist and edit to make things look different than they were. It is a very common practice.
You have some very hypocritical and hyper-partisan beliefs. It's okay to throw a shoe at Bush but its not okay to even speak loudly to Obama? Obama is not a member of Congress, he was in their House after all. He was a guest.
That is some world. Its okay to send SEIU and Black Panther thugs to beat up those guys but they better not yell at us because that would be rude.
As for legally and safely carrying guns where they are permitted what of it? They were no where near the precious members of Congress or President and they were breaking no laws nor threatening people.
Which personal freedom are you speaking of? The right to choose your own doctor or health plan?
Let me make this clear, GW Bush spied on terrorists, its Obama that has expanded it to include the power to spy on anyone. Pres. Obama's admin has argued in the Supreme Court for the power to ban books, films and internet postings that are political (he gets to decide which are illegal of course).
Hmmm....where do I begin? I guess from the top of the last message. Bill Clinton did not see all the intelligence. France may have thought it was real but most other countries did NOT. It was just pushed, as President Bush said, because when people hear something often enough, they start to believe it. How can Obama LIE about something he has no control over? You ESTIMATE about the future. You LIE about the past. Duh. You don't have to be a member of a party to be partisan. Duh. The US has the best health care because YOU say so. Oh, ok. I can't even begin to tell you how STUPID your post is starting to sound. I could go down point by point and deconstruct your racist-based bias but I'd rather not. I do, however, want to point out that one of the reasons you don't get more "liberals" posting on your Free Republic board is because anyone that has anything counter to say gets called unamerican and banned. My 3 or 4 posts there were polite but disagreed with the status quo there so I only get to watch now. It's crazy how you can compare a FOREIGN citizen whose country was invaded by Bush with an ELECTED official of our own government. I guess for you anything you do is ok. Anything the scary black man does is not. Futureboy, you are wasting your time trying to discuss this with him as from the very first post, instead of attacking your points he tries to change the topic to what the "best of the democrats" is. Man, I used to think there was a place for intelligent dialogue from the right but after the whining over the president's speech to students and now, not the outburst of Joe Wilson, but the DEFENSE of the outburst, I'm not so sure.
ReplyDeleteA president who doesn't respect the constitution doesn't deserve respect. It doesn't matter whether it is FDR, GWB or OBH.
ReplyDeleteVasmosn, you rocked my world. Thank-you for pointing out the obvious.
ReplyDeleteI am equal parts fascination and dumbfounded awe when it comes to the Haters tactics and vitriol. It would be really funny, if the world wasn't in such dire straights.
As it is, posters like UCC make me wonder if our species is actually fit to survive.
The left are the ones full of hate and vitriol.
ReplyDeleteThe people are upset because they are tired of being ignored.
I don't think any side of the political spectrum holds the monopoly on hate and vitriol, and saying otherwise is just foolish and naive.
ReplyDeleteAfter all, "You Lie!" is vitriol - and, last time I checked, Joe Wilson was a Republican congressman (at least until Rob Miller pwns him in 2010).
The "people" are upset because they're poor losers who can't believe they actually have to shut up and do what a black man tells them. Admit it.
They're Fundamentalist Conservatives who believe that everything Ronald Reagan said was the Gospel and should be taken literally... and like most fundamentalists they get manipulated by media demagogues (I'm looking at you Fox news) who plays them for suckers.